world_war_2wikiaorg-20200214-history
World War II Wiki:Courtroom/Case 1
Pre-case overview Note: this discussion was started before the courtroom was setup, and does not follow the same format. Charges Harrassment, misused bureaucrat powers Evidence See below Users involved JAF1999 Discussion Begin discussion of the case here: ---- Hi, It seems there have been some problems, both here and on other wikis. Specifically, JAF1999 has been visiting other wikis and trying to force them to affiliate with this wiki - and being abusive if that didn't happen. He's also made some odd decisions on this wiki, which is rather worrying. I've removed JAF1999's bureaucrat rights for now, and he's been banned from Wikia for a couple of weeks. Hopefully, when he comes back you will be able to discuss as a community whether he should have rights here. Please let me know if you need help with anything, including reversing any of his changes. Thanks -- sannse http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb32675/wikia/images/e/e9/WikiaStaff.png (help forum | blog) 21:55, January 22, 2012 (UTC) :Thank you for removing his access. He has two other sock puppet accounts he gave bureaucrat and admin access to. They are: :*http://world-war-2.wikia.com/index.php?title=Special:Contributions&target=JAF1999returned :*http://world-war-2.wikia.com/index.php?title=Special:Contributions&target=Asirhisbigaligao :Other wiki members, please vote on removing the bureaucrat and admin access of the sock puppets. :I would also very strongly recommend that he not be given admin access here again. For one thing, he has already demonstrated that he abuses it. In addition, I promised the users of other wikis that he trolled that I would make sure he is not an admin any more. The situation at other wikis was very serious; we got reported because other Wikia users didn't think we were doing enough about the JAF problem, and the only reason they withdrew their complaint against us was because I stepped in and told them that I would handle it and recommend that JAF not be made an admin again at all. :JAF's actions were also extremely damaging for this wiki, and will blacklist us as a reputable source if anything like this ever happens again. :I know that some of the other admins here do not want to be harsh on JAF, so we can discuss his block in addition to removal of admin privileges. I personally would like him to be blocked very long term, because of what he did to the reputation of this wiki and what he did to troll and harass people at other wikis. I am open to the possibility of a one month block, followed by a trial period afterward where we evaluate his behavior, and the condition that he not receive admin privileges at all. However, given the absolutely disgusting stuff he did at other wikis and the damage he did to our reputation, I think a block of at least a year would be best. I would recommend five years, since that would give him a chance to come back and make legitimate edits when he is older and more mature, and better able to handle himself. :If we go light on him, it's going to be a big sign announcing to everyone that users here can go troll, harass, and insult large numbers of people at other wikis and we don't care about it. :The users at the Fallout Wiki alone are extremely outraged by this.- I also feel that this is a blasphemous understatement. ::Sascha 22:20, January 22, 2012 (UTC) :::I don't see any reason why there should be a vote about his sockpuppets; they should be de-ranked and immediately permabanned -- that's how all wikis ought to handle sockpuppets who are created with the sole intention of perpetrating yet more idiocy. The only time sockpuppets should be tolerated is if they're used for a specific and helpful purpose; IE, for expirimenting purposes. :::As for JAF himself, on the wikis I'm an admin at and at the Fallout wiki, we have specific blocking guidelines. While I can't tally everything up accurately, I'd say all of his infractions combined would constitute at least a 6-month unconditional ban, and put a black mark on any chance to reclaim administrative privileges until he proves himself capable of handling any sort of responsibility. Йура15px|link=User talk:YuriKaslov 22:45, January 22, 2012 (UTC) ::::I think we have to vote to remove the bureaucrat access since we need Sannse to do it, and requests from the staff require community consensus, though like you say, it's probably not necessary for sock puppets. I just want to make sure that we put an end to this completely. :::::Sascha 22:52, January 22, 2012 (UTC) ::::::Usually sockpuppets are permanently disabled when they are found on most wikis I go to. And if they're made after the user is banned then the original user has their block duration increased. Not sure if that's the deal here. Or if my vote counts. I think Sannse meant for the regular editors on this wiki to decide. Message 23:01, January 22, 2012 (UTC) ::::::::Yeah, I meant for the community to discuss blocking him, though we need a staff member to remove his bureaucrat rights. -Sascha 23:05, January 22, 2012 (UTC) In this case, as it's sockpuppets of someone whose rights have already been removed, I'm happy to go ahead and remove rights on those accounts too (and have done so). I've also checked for other accounts, and banned Test1231999, JAFArchiveBot, JAF1999returned, BenPalfreeman and Asirhisbigaligao. JosephAsherFord was already blocked. As Great Mara says, the regular users of this wiki should decide on whether to keep JAF banned, for how long, and whether he should have admin rights back after that (my personal recommendation is that he shouldn't, at least for the foreseeable future). -- sannse http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb32675/wikia/images/e/e9/WikiaStaff.png (help forum | blog) 23:09, January 22, 2012 (UTC) :Thank you -Sascha 23:11, January 22, 2012 (UTC) ::I'm not a regular visitor to your wiki, but I've been asked to comment as I was following the affair from Nukapedia/Fallout wiki. ::As a Law student, I have big problems when I see people trying to misuse law like JAF did; it grows even worse when its something like the Disability Discrimination Act (1995) (Civil law, not Criminal BTW), an act set up to help ::protect people in a vulnerable situation - something else I have personal experience with. ::If we take JAF at his word, and he does have the conditions he listed, (remembering that I'm not a lawyer) the DDA might actually give you a bit of inspiration as to what to do about it. ::The Public Service Annoucements in the UK promoting this act say that its there to ensure that people with special needs can still have comparative access to jobs and services, and that reasonable adjustments should be made for them. ::I would argue that a reasonable adjustment can be made for JAF. If there is the possibility that removal of medication may make him act like this, then the adjustment simply is don't give him the power to do anything another user can't override, and the ability to block him when required for his own protection. Job done. If the admin presence on the wiki is such that his admin actions can't be monitored and vetoed whilst he's on, then he doesn't get admin access because a reasonable adjustment isn't immediately practical; he can still edit, as other users can undo his damage, but no admin powers. ::I hope this helps. Agent c 23:12, January 22, 2012 (UTC) :::I might be willing to do an accommodation, if other users are alright with it. However, it would be a very serious last chance thing with no reconsideration if he messes up. Also, it would require verifiability, which would not be practical, and I'm not sure if he would want to provide the information necessary for verifiability. I think there might be legal issues with that if he's under 18. But if we did have an accommodation program, I wouldn't support making him admin since it wouldn't be a necessity for the wiki, and for the obvious reasons. If we did work out such an accommodation, I would recommend shorting his block to a month or so. Setting any lower would send the message to him and others that he's allowed to do whatever he wants and get away with it. --Sascha 23:28, January 22, 2012 (UTC) ::::Well, this wiki hasn't really developed enough to the point where there are guidelines for most things, but this incident is a sign that we need to. My opinion is that JAF should be blocked for a year. I have been thinking of several new guidelines. One of these is the Admin Policy that would say that any user that requests more powers would need to create fifty new complete pages for admin and one hundred for bureaucrat. That would be a sign that the user is really dedicated. Even though I have some other ideas, I will state them in another discussion. JAF may not have made much damage to the wiki itself (besides clogging up edit histories) he ruined a reputation that took a year to build up. We nearly got new users which I am sure were driven away by this mess. By the way, this forum is for anybody that was effected by JAF so if you were, post your thoughts on his future. -- Fargo84 Talk World War II 23:30, January 22, 2012 (UTC) :::::I'm from the Yu-Gi-Oh! Wiki, and I was asked by Sascha to comment on this. :::::In case you guys need it, you can check his activity on the Yu-Gi-Oh! Wiki. While he hasn't attempted forced affiliation, I had the "pleasure" of dealing with him when I told him that creating advertising articles on the wiki was pointless, as it would be deleted within the same day (sadly, I can't recall what he was advertising. You can see via that link and his talk page how it went from there. Fortunately, he was blocked shortly after. :::::I agree with Kaslov, though - there's no reason action shouldn't be taken. It's just a matter of what would fit properly. :::::Furthermore, I personally believe that disability is not even part of the problem, as 1) I have yet to see any evidence of such, and 2) people have acted worse than he has without any evidence of disability whatever, as experience has shown me. Lord Grammaticus 23:34, January 22, 2012 (UTC) ::::::The disability stuff is really something of a red herring. While we might try to make allowances for someone with a disability (for example, acknowledging that someone with dyslexia might be able to write good articles that need a bit extra maintenance afterwards by someone else), that doesn't mean that any disability should be used as an excuse to be disruptive. And, in the end, the health and well-being of the wiki and it's community is more important than any single person being able to edit. If that person is causing harm to the wiki, and preventing other people from being able to build their content and community, then there is nothing (law or otherwise) stopping the admins from blocking them. -- sannse http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb32675/wikia/images/e/e9/WikiaStaff.png (help forum | blog) 23:58, January 22, 2012 (UTC) :::::::Exactly what I was thinking. Lord Grammaticus 00:00, January 23, 2012 (UTC) ::::::::I agree with that. We need to let reliability and reputability come first since it's the most important thing for a historical wiki. I suggest we give JAF a few years off and if he still wants to come back and edit then, we'll give him a chance when he'll hopefully be more mature. --Sascha 01:15, January 23, 2012 (UTC) :::::::::We need to have Nelfen and Vapor Snake's vote to have consensus, but overall the decision looks to block JAF1999 for 1-2 years. -- Fargo84 Talk World War II 01:19, January 23, 2012 (UTC) :::::::::I agree with the two year ban and i would encourage discussions before granting users admin rights. And especially Bureaucrat rights, as they cannot be removed with ease. -- [[User:Vapor Snake|'Vapor Snake']] [[User talk:Vapor Snake|'Talk']] [[w:c:world-war-2.wikia:World War II Wiki|'World War II Wiki Founder']] 01:27, January 23, 2012 (UTC) ::::::::::Sascha Kreiger already said that four Bureaucrats is enough and I agree. -- Fargo84 Talk World War II 01:36, January 23, 2012 (UTC) :::::::::::I believe Nelfen's abilities should be removed as well, seeing as JAF1999 was the one who instated them and seemed to act awfully friendly with him. this can be seen on his talk page. here is an excerpt: ::::::::::::"Dear Nelfen, you seem like the only person I can trust who is not in my family. I congratulate you for your efforts and your bureaucratship, which I have given you. You have stuck up for me all the way and I hope we can stay in touch. If I lose, don't worry. If I am de-sysopped because I have problems in the head and they will not listen to me. You are the only one who does. I can teach you all my skills, because if anyone is ever going to take over from me, it will be you. I owe you one! Also, if I am blocked by your birthday, Happy Birthday (in advance)!" ::::::::::::-- [[User:Vapor Snake|'Vapor Snake']] [[User talk:Vapor Snake|'Talk']] [[w:c:world-war-2.wikia:World War II Wiki|'World War II Wiki Founder']] 01:45, January 23, 2012 (UTC) :::::::::::::It is a little strange, but I don't think they're working together. I think that it's just because Nelfen was never involved with the proceedings against JAF that he got favorable treatment when JAF tried to being in his new regime. Nonetheless, it might be good to keep an eye on things just to make sure everything is alright. --Sascha 01:58, January 23, 2012 (UTC) ::::::::::::::Actually, the last part of the message is pretty unsettling. --Sascha 01:59, January 23, 2012 (UTC) Hi, I was asked by Sascha to post here. I am a regular editor at the Fallout Wiki (Nukapedia), along with Agent c and Great Mara. Almost all of us he had banned from the WWII Wiki, and after that he continued to make bad decisions, including, as Agent c said, the manipulation of law to accommodate his desires. Personally, I believe this example of power abuse has gone too far. He should never receive administrator privileges again and I believe a one-year ban would suffice. These are just my thoughts, as I was somewhat involved in the incident. -ΣΔLet's talk! 02:12, January 23, 2012 (UTC) :It seems the community supports a 1-2 year ban for JAF. I support slightly longer than that, since I think it would be better if he was considerably older and (hopefully) more mature before he comes back. I agree that he should have complete prohibition on adminship here. --Sascha 02:18, January 23, 2012 (UTC) :::There's no discussion needed. There is a lot of evidence and testimonies to prove that JAF1999, regardless of wether or not he has a disability, is a troll and a vandal. How he became an administrator is beyond me, but in the short time I know him he has called several of my friends Wankers and Fuckers, has blocked User:Sascha Kreiger for no reason even going as far as to delete her talk page and vandalise her userpage (the image has been deleted now, but implied that Sascha was a "Chief Cock" and notorious rapist) then locking it so nobody could change it, has been on several Wikis demanding to be made an admin and has created bureaucrats from random users around the site in order for them to back him up in arguments. He deserves a wiki-wide block, there's no other alternative. 03:04, January 23, 2012 (UTC) Votes I think that the discussion has ended, but to make sure just put whether you think JAF should be blocked for one year or two. Example: Fargo84: 1 year Vapor Snake: Indefinate and/or wiki-wide Lord Grammaticus: Indefinite and/or wiki-wide SigmaDelta54 (Fallout Wiki): 1 year (wiki-wide) Yuri Kaslov: Indefinite. IP 114.77.77.5: Indefinite Wiki-wide block. Removal of administrative rights. (Yes-Man from the Fallout Wiki) The vote was going to close in five minutes, but it is a tie so the next vote will decide whether it is one year or indefinite. Fargo84 Talk World War II 03:44, January 23, 2012 (UTC) The vote is over, the final decision is indefinite block of JAF1999. Indefinate it is then. BTW, you should recommend a global block to the staff since we don't have the power to set one. --Sascha 04:08, January 23, 2012 (UTC) Ahh, good. I came on here about to make a very long speech explaining why this behaviour from Jaf should be punished to the fullest extent possible. I will talk to Sansse myself about keeping his global ban up. (At the moment, he currently does have a global ban I believe.) link=User:GarouxBloodline[[User talk:GarouxBloodline| Skål! ]] 06:33, January 23, 2012 (UTC) Category:Policy Category:Cases